norman.ho

! C$ {! Y- Y% u$ g/ r0 o公仔箱論壇TVBNOW 含有熱門話題，最新最快電視，軟體，遊戲，電影，動漫及日常生活及興趣交流等資訊。8 i1 f8 r3 Q' v' C5 a, L
I haven't read this post in much details, as usual, there is a lot to digest; and I am very much an outsider to HK politics.
1 p8 g! L9 ~' m9 d# itvb now,tvbnow,bttvbHere in Australia, we don't care that much about the private life of the politicians; as long as their public performance is accountable to the people who vote for them, we are happy.
( R, [( u8 b7 u% c2 P公仔箱論壇Many years back, one of our Prime Minister when to a resort in Mexico for a little holiday, only to wake up one morning without his trousers, and incidentally he didn't bring any spare one with him.  Here, we just have a good laugh about it, no damage done.
+ ]# l# {0 X- S1 r/ y( QAnd I believe private business between two consenting adults is entirely private to themselves, and any family conflicts is best left to the individuals to sort it out.tvb now,tvbnow,bttvb1 x, c2 c% X6 v' ?6 d9 X
By the way, our current prime minister is a female, living in sin with her partner, at the lodge.  We have no problem with that either.
. s% ~6 q2 s, i, I8 W/ @tvb now,tvbnow,bttvbAnd there is one very competent and well respected minister, she is an ethnic Chinese, born here, went back to Saba during her childhood, and she is openly gay. (Though she doesn't talk about it, and rightly so).) i! T' S& X# T6 k* a/ O
There is a good chance that she could become our next prime minister; so I'll say to our US counterparts, you might think having an Afro American as president is cool, just wait till you see who could be our next national leader.   Female, ethnic Chinese and gay.  But she is really competent, object and rational.

norman.ho

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3 t) P7 z; Q0 B9 E2 p3 U5 i; `5.39.217.76Thank you felicity.  As always, your comments are so clear, precise and informative.
: K1 t; ~! u* T* ?tvb now,tvbnow,bttvbI had watched some episode on how some of the members of the Executive Council behaved, how they abuse their privilege, like shouting, throwing eggs and tomatoes at the speakers etc; I was absolutely flabbergasted.  This kind of behavior would never be tolerated in a mature democratic society.# I" m: n, K7 _9 a: S2 O6 U
As for the development of self rule in HK, could you shed some light on the development from the colonial time say during the early 70's and compare it with how it is now.  And perhaps compare it with the development of self rule of the post colonial rule of the Singaporean Government from 1965 to 1979?

norman.ho

TVBNOW 含有熱門話題，最新最快電視，軟體，遊戲，電影，動漫及日常生活及興趣交流等資訊。1 y( @+ j4 ^5 @, E; K6 T# d

# i  E, I# ^. j5 m/ Y9 ?+ @6 h! wTVBNOW 含有熱門話題，最新最快電視，軟體，遊戲，電影，動漫及日常生活及興趣交流等資訊。Reading your comment, I can't help but to think you were reminiscing the "good old time" of the colonial rule. (I could be completely wrong here). 公仔箱論壇6 B6 H: r/ O5 P* _$ {3 Y
Yes, I read that during the early 70s, there was a stable economy(no global financial crisis then, not even the Asian crisis), many people got rich investing in real estate and those who were with the police.  But I also read that corruption was rampant, the police were under the payroll of the Triads, drugs dealing and forced prostitution were everywhere.
, |) W3 _# Z" ?) Q5.39.217.76 The Governor then was appointed by the Crown.  And the majority of the Executive Council members were directly appointed by the Governor.  There were less than a handful of seats that were elected, and the right to vote was highly controlled and confined to a few of the privileged.tvb now,tvbnow,bttvb& z1 U* a7 d/ v; s0 \
The Government then, by maintain the absolute authority, could dictate policies, there were no minimum wages, no social security, and there were only 2 universities.  For HK students to get into the university there, it was 20 times harder compare with the Brits gaining admission to Oxford or Cambridge.
' X' `; Q% f0 I, @' I1 |, L2 H; E公仔箱論壇Not till the early 80s, the Brits realize they had no chance of keeping maintaining the colonial rule, and with the very last appointed governor, Chris Patten, who started this so call social reform, advocating social democracy, providing financial support for the aged and unemployed ... etc, etc.
$ E) I! ?7 p$ q" a+ M; f" HTVBNOW 含有熱門話題，最新最快電視，軟體，遊戲，電影，動漫及日常生活及興趣交流等資訊。If the Brits were to  maintain the colonial rule of HK, do you think this so call "democratic reform" would have happened?
1 L' D$ l7 j; r7 R, Q5.39.217.76Hong Kong has always thought itself superior and unique in the area of economy and social reform, and a model for China—not a recipient of its handouts. This changing role is difficult for many to understand, let alone to accept.
  X3 W% Z/ e5 s+ g+ B4 \tvb now,tvbnow,bttvbDemocratic development is seldom an orderly process that follows straight lines. What Hong Kong experiences is little different from what happens in any community that moves rapidly from authoritarian rule to open elections, complete with checks and balances among different branches of government.5.39.217.76# l+ Z( o3 D0 V; g& B) y7 `
The reason I try to draw some parallel of the political development of the Singapore government is, when I was little, I heard of a lot of discontent of the Singaporean Government, there were comments like Lee Kwong Yew was a dictator, a tyrant, there were no journalistic freedom, any opposition parties were being quickly stifled.
/ n  A  I/ d2 f% I7 x8 KEven now Singapore is still not a true democratic government, but we all know is that it is a very stable and well functioning society.* |& u7 [0 U- p  G3 n8 a1 Y1 g6 `8 h
My point is "Democracy" is only one of the political models; it is definitely not a one size fit all system, and there are many variants.  These different democratic models may suit many of the western culture, but it certain can't be just imposed onto any countries which might have a different political culture and different set of social values.9 A* \3 R# r# u4 q

+ ?: L$ y! ]: b* ^. eTVBNOW 含有熱門話題，最新最快電視，軟體，遊戲，電影，動漫及日常生活及興趣交流等資訊。Got to go,  to be cont ....

norman.ho

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Felicity, it's always so pleasant discussing the current issue with you.  I was actually born in Hk, had my primary education there; unfortunately, I was really slack in studying Chinese, and I have been living very much of an Anglo environment in here for a long time, with little contact with the local Chinese untill last few years, my Chinese writing is next to hopeless.
) f$ z# C7 G9 O0 [! g2 f/ u& q2 lYes, you are right, MacLehose did set up the ICAC and cleared up a lot of corruption in HK, and HK is still one of the prime example of a corruption free society in Asia.  I think if the Governor didn't instigate such policy, the British parliament would be very worry about loosing control of HK all together.  I have developed a strong interest on the developement of the Chinese and Hong Kong government for the last few years, and feel really proud for the progress the country has achieved.  I've been back there quite a few times since, and every time I was back, I feel much safer as I went wandering around the city, and I found the older generation (over 60s) generally feel a lot more secure and content. (while those new migrants from the mainland might feel differently)
( B: b% s& C; g4 Y' U' `5.39.217.76Sure there is corruption and injustice that are happening, but I believe there is enough goodwill in the government to stamp out these bad practice; and it's people like you who can look at the situation rationally and objectively that give those of us who reside outside the country a lot of confidence in the future of our country.  Also as a kind of outsider myself, we do very often have a different view on the local issue, that is what makes our discussion a lot more interesting.tvb now,tvbnow,bttvb7 {% j% ~' t( S/ @
May take a break for a little while, hope to catch up with you again in the near future.